Club EvMed: Divergent evolutionary roots for posttraumatic stress disorder symptoms - Shared screen with speaker view
Joseph Graves Jr
WEIRD acronym really needs to be changed to WEIRD(IW), IW for “if white.”
Joseph Graves Jr
Is this in any way related to “just war” theory? Moral insults should be related to the degree that individuals belief in the moral justification for what they are doing.
Joseph Graves Jr
Fundamental question arises concerning the technology of killing; e.g. easier to kill w/o consequence with projectile weapons compared to hand to hand weapon fighting.
Yaochi Li
Where did you guys do the research again?
Adam Hunt
The Turkana, in Northwest Kenya
Yaochi Li
Thank you.
Joseph Graves Jr
Lots of questions arise here concerning evolutionary explanations of PTSD here. First how long has this situation existed for these groups? Are they using ancient evolved mechanisms to adapt to stress resulting from warfare, or are these responses novel to the current situation? How would you test ancient versus novel responses? Also how do you test that any of the PTSD responses adaptive? Do those with highest PTSD have > fitness, or is an intermediate level best for fitness, or is low level more likely to lead to death?
Prerna Ambrish
Is there any research on PTSD or C-PTSD not caused by combat (eg. abuse)?
Joseph Graves Jr
There is considerable research on PTSD related to child abuse and sexual assault.
Melissa Franklin
Prerna Ambrish
Thank you!
Asha Barnes
Is there related research on PTSD and gang activity/membership? I would imagine that there would be some similarities.
Adam Hunt
Interestingly does imply the depressive symptoms are a product of mismatch
Calen Ryan
I’d be curious to what extent the perceived evenness of the match is a factor for a moral injury? In other words, if you are at war with an opponent with similar material, personnel, and technological assets, do you feel more morally comfortable than if you are in a more obviously asymmetrical war? Or does the added dehumanization that often accompanies asymmetrical warfare reduce moral injury?
Adam Hunt
Has some kind of implication for treating depressive symptoms in PTSD in American/WEIRD soldiers....
Yaochi Li
So basically, as a part of army they are allowed to kill other people?
Joseph Graves Jr
Somehow I am left wondering what the evolutionary explanation for PTSD (adaptive value) from this presentation? Also why are the Turkana a better group to study than Israeli fighter pilots or Hamas rocket fighters?
Meredith Spence Beaulieu, PhD (she/her/hers)
We’ll be opening up for discussion soon! Feel free to virtually raise your hand at any point to join the question queue. (Click “Reactions” at the bottom of your screen, then “Raise Hand.”)
Adam Hunt
Maybe I missed this - were there control groups comparing base rates of depressive symptoms between general American/Turkana populations without PTSD? Perhaps the depression is simply a Western phenomenon overlapping with PTSD in these cases?
Terence Taylor
From your work do you think that there is a difference in impact on individuals living in continuous likelihood of armed conflict (like the Turkana) and those, for example, of soldiers sent for a defined period into conflict with the prospect of returning to a normal society with a ;ow likelihood of conflict.
Paul Leslie
Thanks for the talk! I was part of a long-term research project (the South Turkana Ecosystem Project) in Turkana during the 1980s and ‘90s. The images induced lots of memories, including of the stress experienced by the families we worked with (and by some of the researchers, for that matter).
Anishka Bandara
^Adding onto this, I was curious to know if you think that there would be a difference in impact between voluntary participants in such conflicts versus involuntary participants. And if so, would something like moral conflict or social risk be responsible for such differences?
Rui P B Diogo
Why would all the diseases or medical conditions be adaptive, that makes no sense at all
Adam Hunt
Many evolutionary psychology experiments don't measure reproductive success (takes too many generations etc) - often universality is taken as evidence
Rui P B Diogo
Evolutionary medicine needs to go out of that dogmatic ultra-adaptationist view of the 1970s, once for all.. in evo-devo, etc, that view of evolution is no longer accepted, at all..
Melissa Franklin
Does PTSD increase sympathetic response time in general, even other areas? That might be argued adaptable.
Melissa Franklin
Sorry decrease reaction time
Ricky Ma
what was the functional or adaptive reasoning given for ptsd?
David Pietraszewski
design evidence….
Mark Collard
Rui makes a good point.
Joseph Graves Jr
“Moral sphere” and “Western Culture” seems to be an oxymoron.
Mark Collard
Re: Joseph’s point, have the authors looked at associations between the PTSD symptoms and assessments of formidability, preference as partners in cooperative activities, or attractiveness as mates?
Calen Ryan
Makes me wonder to what extent “haunting” is a culturally-specific view that might speak to PTSD.
Joseph Graves Jr
The similarity of response in all humans does not mean that PTSD has an adaptive explanation. The response could have resulted from underlying traits that had nothing to do with PTSD.
Meredith Spence Beaulieu, PhD (she/her/hers)
Yes, chat will be saved!
Adam Hunt
It's at least consistent with an adaptive result - it could have been falsified by finding no relation
Anishka Bandara
Thank you for this discussion!
Meredith Spence Beaulieu, PhD (she/her/hers)
It’s included in the recording link that will be emailed to all registrants.
Mark Collard
Thanks everyone!
Yaochi Li
Thank you!
Robert Schopler
Interesting subject and questions
Rob Sica
Many thanks for fascinating presentation and discussion.
Matt Snider
Do you think the issues of Moral injury would be different in the Turkana villages that are further south, along the Maasai/Samburu borders which are heavily populated by Turkana violence widows that moved there after the violence spike in the Turkana north in the 1980s?
Adam Hunt
Great paper and presentation, thanks guys!
Manasa Vejalla
Thank you!
Gillian Pepper
Thank you!